Steve Smith "Evolved"

[S.P]

those pots are indian instruments called tablas....i think steve does a couple of songs with a tabla player on the Drum Nation cd from modern drummer..

[WecklsMechanic]

God damm!!

Talk about over analyzing a guys playing!! Ya know....?? It is what it is.

I guess I side with Roy on this one. Steve Smith with never really did much for me back then with Journey and even now listening to Journey some 20 years later. If I wanted to listen to "arena rock" bands I think of bands like Rush, Pat Travers with Tommy Adridge, Jethro Tull with Mark Cranney or even Yes. Maybe even U.K. live with Bozzio (even if its not "rock"). I listen to Journey mostly for the melodies. I like alot of their songs.

The "passion" thing..... well??? To each his own.

I gotta admit.. I once saw Vital Info with Jeff Berlin, T-lavits (of the Dixie Dregs) and I think Scott Henderson?? It was off the hook man!! I thought that Steve had really taken his playing and "passion" to a new level. Nothing like I had ever seen in Journey. I saw him interacting with Berlin and Lavitz like I had never seen him do before. Very intuitive, and certainly not following any "mold". They were "jamming" and feeding off each other. Very cool stuff.

Speaking of passionate players that are intuitive to ebb and flow of the music at hand. I thought Weckl was getting a little "up tight" about his playing (now who's over analyzing now!!??). Knowing how much musical education Dave has and how much "vocabulary" he also has, I felt that he was holding back. But then Dave hung with Gruber for a while, and then about 1 1/2 years later, I saw him with his band here in L.A. and WOW!!! I walked up to him and said, "what the f--K man!!??". I couldn't believe the "off the cuff" stuff he was going for.

Not to get too far off the subject, but I think that players that are highly "intuitive" to what poly rhythms, metric modulations, and melodies are being played at the time, and the "reaction" in which to they respond to it, make the difference between those that are truly gifted in the "having big ears" dept. (pardon me Ross Perot [img]tongue.gif[/img] ). There will never be another Buddy, another Tony, another Vinnie. That we all know. These are animals all their own kind and you'd have to have been given a special set of genetics to "interpret" at that level, but we can all try, we can all strive, and broadening our musical horizons are what makes this crazy musical world go round. Proof of that is, I can't even make it through my Micheal Urbaniak and Ursula Druziak tape anymore (yuk!!). What the hell was I thinking of back then?? [img]eek.gif[/img]

It's all good.

[royerin]

I agree. I never got into Journey (can't stand that voice, sorry...), and the Vital stuff never did anything for me musically, so that kind of turns me off Steve from the start. I saw him in clinic a few years ago and while what he played was clean, it was possibly too clean.....sterile even. Like the others have said, very well rehearsed.

[jonthibault]

There's a Wayne Shorter CD called Witch Hunt that Steve (Holmes) turned me on to. Elvin's on it. There's one tune where Elvin blatantly screws up, but he stays in time and it actually sounds disgustingly hip (Steve knows what I'm talking about). Those little sloppy flaws seem to actually be desirable, especially in jazz. Word.

[FuseU1]

T -
DOUBLE word.
[...DOUBLE word...] [img]graemlins/thumbs_up.gif[/img]

--------------------------------

PS - All that "SS 'hatin'"...shame, no, DOUBLE shame on ya's...*PPPHHHFFFTTTT*, even!...WORD. [img]redface.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/thumbs_down.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/cry_smile.gif[/img] ;c)

Sacrilege. Bloody anarchists. Blasphemy, even. [I'll bet youre all the same bastinados that didnt dig Rod's playg]...
[img]wink.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] (:cD

[Edit:] BTW - having said that...
"Tain for president." - Branford M, 10-15-04

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ October 20, 2004 05:35 PM: Message edited by: FuseU1 ]</font>

[Steve Holmes]

I tend to agree with the general consensus. I just watched some of the DVD Sunday night too.

I like the "Thank you Mr Williams" solo he does, but the rest of it seems very sterile and void of emotion. I was big fan of the Smith DCI era, and back to Journey as well. Hell, those DCI tapes exposed me to the Blushda.
The second disc does have PRICELESS info about the history of the US drumming. Hell I think they should show that in classrooms.

[mja61]

I think Dazzler and Steve-o said it perfectly....I couldn't re-hash it any better.

I'm a huge SS fan but I have mixed feelings about the evolution of his playing. I've got almost everything he's played on, except for "Vital Info," "Orion," and "Global Beat."

I've seen him several times since around '99 or 2000, and every time, I walk out of there "floored" (btw, what was that "obsolete" phrase Erskoman used? "Knocked my socks off"?), but also like something was missing.

Anyways....some thoughts:

- I think his drum sound is not helping him. He seems to have tuned the life out of his drums. Too thin, sterile, and dry, IMO. However, consider this: listen to the Tone Center records from late '90's/early '00's. It's basically the same drummer during the same period of time, but the drums are recorded differently on each disc. The VTT records are probably my favorite drumming-wise, but they also have the "meatiest" recording. SS raves about how well Bob Biles records the band, but I think it couldn't be more lifeless.

- I think SS's devotion to researching the "U.S Beat" is something we desperately needed to revive the soul of American drumming (i.e. undo the damage of the drum machine mentality). However, I think SS did himself (and his fans) a huge disservice by totally discounting his ability to learn the Afro-Cuban style, just because he wasn't born in that part of the world. So much great drumming (esp. from Gadd/Vinnie/Weckl) is based on this style. I don't think SS is at all of Indian descent, but he seems to be quite devoted to studying that style. What's the difference if you were born in the U.S.?

- I think SS has O.D.'ed on the the Gruber approach. Although his speed, chops, independence, and all that is closing in on Buddy Rich territory, I think his touch has become too light. One thing I like about Vinnie, Dennis, Gregg, Porcaro, and to a lesser extent Gadd and Weckl, is that they are not afraid to put some emotion into their playing and HIT the drums once in a while. I just LOVE it when Vinnie lays into his floor toms with some fat flams or lays out a wide "goosh." I hear this in SS's earlier playing, but not in the last few years.

- While his technical abilities have certainly advanced, I think his vocabulary took a big step back. ([I think it was] Steve Holmes said a while back that SS was still searching for his voice on the instrument....that's a great way to put it, but he may have found it 20 years ago, and lost it more recently). Check out the early Vital Info, Journey, Steps Ahead, etc. and you'll hear a "fatter" sound...more expression, more interesting fills, more phrasing. It's as if he's weeded out most of his vocabulary for the sake of technique. Just about everything he plays these days is derived off a few basic fills and patterns (most of them nearly "corny"....you know the one's I'm talkin' 'bout [img]wink.gif[/img] ) with an emphasis on how fast or how metrically modulated he can play them.

- I think SS places too much emphasis on using a "letter-of-the-law" swing on just about every tune. When most of us say "swing," we're not talking about an explicit usage of the jazz ride cymbal pattern; we're talking about making the music feel good.

A few compliments in the interest of equal time:

- I saw him play a solo on a jungle kit a few years ago (the "East Meets Jazz" tour with an Indian tabla player) that floored me. He had this 5/4 ostinato going between the bass drum and hi-hat, and had the entire audience clapping along IN FIVE the whole time. How many other drummers could do that?

- Steve H mentioned the "Thank You Mr. Williams" solo on the DVD. The last time I saw Vital Info live, he did something similar using just his mallets that sent my jaw crashing to the floor! He was playing 16th's phrased in fours on the snare (Moeller technique, snares off), using the heel-toe technique to play 16th's phrased in threes on the bass, "sloshing" eigths on the HH with foot, and, with his remaining hand, the most musical orchestrations around the toms I've ever heard. That was probably the single best drum solo I have ever, or will have ever, heard in my life.

All that said, SS is still one of my favorite drummers, and a true student of the instrument. He's carried the Buddy/Blakey/Roach torch that just about every other name drummer abandoned. For that, he deserves our gratitude and will always have my utmost respect.

And lastly...if you see him live, SS has got the baddest-ass snare drum rimshots since Buddy himself. [img]wink.gif[/img]

<font color="#a62a2a" size="1">[ October 20, 2004 09:45 PM: Message edited by: mja61 ]</font>

[Tom Hipskind]

Originally posted by jonthibault:
I don't know, his playing just leaves me cold. I've seen him with Vital a couple of times, in clinic, and his DVDs. He's amazing, but he doesn't make me jump out of my seat and go "Yeah!" I think maybe certain kinds of playing SHOULD be a little rough around the edges.

<font size="2" face="Verdana, Helvetica, sans-serif">Couldn't agree more, T-bo! There's a human quality (warmth, perhaps?) missing for me.

-Tom

[FuseU1]

Some good points.

Other than that, again, see my above post. [img]wink.gif[/img] [img]tongue.gif[/img] [img]biggrin.gif[/img] [img]redface.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/rainbow.gif[/img] [img]graemlins/sun.gif[/img]

[PocketPlayer]

Some very good thots! Thanks for the read. I love analysis of time & groove! Intelligent opinions for sure.